Tech for Good: Innovating Sustainability in Fashion and Industry

Eric (00:03.914)
Hey, I'm Eric Melcher, and if you want to know how some of the most innovative founders and marketers are scaling their business, then this is the show for you. Today we have Alessandro Nona, who is the co -founder of Stay, a marketplace for sustainable fashion, who's on a mission to accelerate the transition towards a more responsible and transparent industry. They've had two financing rounds and have around 30 ,000 monthly users on their platform. Alessandro is also the co -founder of Metric Flow.

where they empower companies to measure and reduce the environmental impact of their supply chains with AI. Alessandro, welcome to the show.

Alessandro Nora (00:41.304)
Hello Eric, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure being here and being able to share a bit about my experience.

Eric (00:47.338)
Yeah, pleasure having you here. Now, Alessandro, innovation can be a new method, an idea, maybe even a new product. For example, when I used to work for OptiMonk, which provides conversion optimization tools for e -commerce brands, one of the things we did was provide e -commerce store owners access to CRO optimization specialists. They would analyze their store, they would provide recommendations.

And since many of these CRO specialists were actually e -commerce store owners themselves, these store owners actually appreciated their advice and the suggestions that helped them to reduce churn. So from an innovation standpoint, what are some of the innovative things that STAY is doing when it comes to sustainable fashion?

Alessandro Nora (01:34.83)
Absolutely, very relevant Eric. So when we started off stay, there were two key value propositions that we wanted to bring into the picture. One was AI personalization and the other sustainability. We started back in 2019 and sustainability, let's say, was not so well aware across Europe. Some areas were more advanced than others like mobility or food. Well, for fashion, we saw that it was lagging behind. At the same time, we saw the consumers were very open to...

Eric (01:48.906)
and sustainability, let's say, was not so well aware across Europe. Some areas...

Eric (02:02.026)
At the same time, we saw the consumers were very open to this new topic, they were very aware. But at the same time, they had difficulties in finding the right style, finding the right brands. And that's what we wanted to bring you today. We created an aggregator, a marketplace, that would source the best sustainable brands in Europe and match them with consumers. So we used AI for personalization to understand your preferences, your taste, what you like, what you dislike. And...

Alessandro Nora (02:04.174)
this new topic, they were very aware, but at the same time, they had difficulties in finding the right style, finding the right brands. And that's what we wanted to bring with us today. We created an aggregator, a marketplace that would source the best sustainable brands in Europe and match them with consumers. So we used AI for personalization to understand your preferences, your taste, what you like, what you dislike. And...

On the other hand, we use sustainability criteria to also, let's say, personalize the experience of every user. So maybe there were people that were looking more for organic and sustainable materials or maybe sustainable supply chains in terms of working conditions. And this way we could personalize the experience on both style as well as the values of the people coming on our platform.

Eric (02:31.37)
Okay, how did you get the first companies or the brands on your platform? How did you go about that, Asando?

Alessandro Nora (02:59.982)
Yeah, so back in the days I was still at university, I co -founded with two partners of mine and we went around Berlin. It was my first year in the city where I'm based and we realized there were many store owners providing sustainable fashion brands. And one of the key challenges they were facing was how to increase visibility and awareness online.

Eric (03:15.338)
for owners providing sustainable fashion brands. And one of the key challenges that we're facing was...

Alessandro Nora (03:26.638)
So at this stage, we validated and started closing the first two stores. And just one month later, give it the serendipity or the lack of the time, we had the biggest sustainable fashion fair in the world hosted in Berlin. So we went to these events and we had the possibility to meet over 110 brands and without a platform yet, just with this big idea.

Eric (03:27.498)
So at this stage we validated and started closing the first two stores and just one month later, given the serendipity or the lack of the time, we had the biggest sustainable cash register in the world posted in Berlin. So we went to this event and we had the possibility to meet over 110 brands and...

about a platform that discussed this big idea. How we were going to look like, what we were going to do. You were able to secure 30 grams, I don't know what platform, even before launching itself. So a few months later, after we finalized the product, we embroidered the first format, and so we kicked off the marketing process with 30 grams.

Alessandro Nora (03:51.598)
how it was going to look like, what we were going to do. We were able to secure 30 brands to sell on our platform, even before launching itself. So a few months later, after we finalized, let's say the product, we onboarded the first partners. And so we kicked off the marketplace with over 30 brands.

Alessandro Nora (04:17.966)
Now, I would say this is not the usual, let's say the typical startup story where it would say you have a small MVP and then you sort of get it started on your own. We were very lucky because during our journey of validation, we met an angel investor that was really passionate. We found out only after our first meetings trying to explain our vision of making sustainable fashion, let's say the norm and bringing it all over to European consumers.

Eric (04:28.522)
phone.

Eric (04:38.282)
after our first meeting trying to explain our vision of making sustainable fashion that saved the norm and bringing it all over to European consumers that she was vegan and was only buying sustainable fashion for the past three years.

Alessandro Nora (04:46.286)
that she was vegan and was only buying sustainable fashion for the past three years. So there was really a match in that sense. So we built a prototype of the platform. But from that, we were able to close the first financing of an angel realm that allowed us to empower the platform from the very early days with a lot of automation and personalization. That's why we were able to include all these features since the launch.

Eric (04:52.138)
All right. Now when you talk about personalization, can you give us some examples of what the typical user experience looked like and how you were personalizing their experience on the platform?

Alessandro Nora (05:22.19)
Yeah. So in the early days, we had an onboarding where when our clients would create an account with us, they would also give us preferences about their style. And from there, we had a little model that could match it with similar styles. And on a more, let's say, front end level of the experience, you could source the brand based on values and based on materials and sort of practices.

Eric (05:42.986)
based on values and based on materials and sort of practices. So these were the two main.

Alessandro Nora (05:48.142)
So these were the two main levels. Over time, we removed the first part of preferences that became more in the background. As we noticed that many people maybe prefer just browsing and that in the background, we would understand their consumer behavior and display the products on the tone. So we hosted the platform on Shopify and we were lucky enough to have a lot of, let's say tools and partners that enabled us to customize the experience with AI and also consumer behavior.

Eric (05:52.65)
Okay, how

Alessandro Nora (06:21.838)
Yeah. So we had a big pivotal moment about a year ago. So in terms of co -founders, we decided to take different directions. And during this time, that's also when I decided to found my second company, Metric Flow. So about one year ago, we had a peak about 40 ,000 users on the platform on a monthly basis, 250 sellers on the platform. And we decided to look...

Eric (06:32.906)
time that's also when I decided to found my second

Eric (06:42.922)
is 250 sellers on the platform. And we decided to look for a partner that could continue our vision and would allow us to go on and focus on other projects. So right now we have sold our platform to a bigger competitor, evolo .com, which is the market leader in the Nordics. And they are planning in this month their growth market for the German market.

Alessandro Nora (06:47.406)
for a partner that could continue our vision and would allow us to go on and focus on other projects. So right now we have sold our platform to a bigger competitor, evolo .com, which is the market leader in the Nordics and they are...

planning in these moms, their go -to market for the German market. So these were, let's say, a very ideal partner because they operate in the same model with drop shipping. They have similar partners and they found a very good way to scale with paid marketing advertising.

Eric (07:08.01)
So you would say a very ideal partner because they operate in the same model with the same tools. They have similar partners and they found a very good way to stay on with the same model.

Eric (07:37.61)
a very profitable business from the very beginning or did you guys have a lot of hurdles to overcome when it came to the financial aspect?

Alessandro Nora (07:44.174)
Now, I believe e -commerce and marketplaces in particular face a lot of competition. So margins are definitely very low, especially on the marketplace size side of things. If you look at Zalando or Farfetch as platforms, they've been running for years and Farfetch never turned a profit.

Zalando took 12 years and with 10 billion volume, they're only able to make a few tens of millions of profit. So overall, the market is very tight and you need to reach a critical mass in order to turn profits. And this is also what we experienced at Stain. Just to give you an example, we would take an average take rate of 25 to 30 % per order, while the margins of the usual fashion companies are around 70, 80%. So this meant that we needed to be extremely...

Eric (08:11.722)
So overall the market is very tight and we need to reach a critical mass in order to determine profits. And this is also what we experienced at Stain. Just to give you an example, we would take an average take rate of 25 to 30 % per order, while the margins of the usual fashion companies are on 7 to 8%. So these meant that we needed to be extremely effective with our marketing strategies and cost of activation. And of course...

Alessandro Nora (08:33.422)
effective with our marketing strategies and cost of acquisition. And of course, during the wave of 2021, 2022, 2020, 2021, there was a lot of capital in the market and you could spend a lot for growth. So the main revenue metrics, say key metrics were revenue, users and visitors.

Eric (08:46.538)
So the main revenue metrics, say key metrics for revenue, users and visitors, but that turn around between the different people and the tricks which became, okay, what is that position cost? When do you turn it off? And that's why also in the market we saw a bit of consolidation and the best decision for us to move forward and let's say get closer to profitability was to partner up with a larger company that...

Alessandro Nora (08:52.334)
But that turned around between 2022 and 2023, which became, okay, what is the acquisition cost? When do you turn profitable on the first orders? And that's why also in the market, we saw a bit of consolidation and the best decision for us to move forward. And let's say get closer to profitability was to partner up with a larger company that could leverage a lot of synergies from our combination.

Eric (09:16.17)
How many co -founders altogether were there and are you still friends with them?

Alessandro Nora (09:21.486)
Yeah, we used to be free at the beginning, then a fourth one joined along during this journey. So we were all friends actually, and it was a really good journey, a lot of learnings and also a lot of growth experiences together.

Eric (09:34.026)
a lot of learning and also a lot of growth experiences together. What was your typical responsibility like you know day -to -day? What were you focused on?

Alessandro Nora (09:44.398)
Yeah. So it varied over time as we worked on the company for over four years and a half. Initially, it was mainly on the finance and sales side of things. So I took care of the documentation for fundraising, pitch decks, investor relations, as well as all the part of B2B sales. So I really enjoyed the early days, just picking up the phone, calling the first brands, asking what I thought about the platform and securing the partnerships.

Eric (09:57.854)
and I'm pitch techs, investor relations, as well as all the part of BPD sales. So I really enjoyed the early days just picking up the phone, calling the first friends, asking what I thought about the platform.

Alessandro Nora (10:10.124)
Later on, it moved more, I remained on the aspect of finance and investors, and then I extended to sustainability. I became very passionate about sustainability. We had an onboarding process for all the brands that they needed to fill out different areas of, let's say, topics from materials to supply chain to human conditions. And we developed this own sustainability assessment to really ensure that the partners that would come on the platform were really sustainable.

Eric (10:11.05)
Later on, I remained on the aspect of finance and investors, and then I extended to sustainability. I became very passionate about sustainability. We had an onboarding process for the brands that they needed to fill out different areas of topics, from materials to supply chain to human conditions. We developed this own sustainability assessment to really ensure that the partners that would come on the platform were really sustainable.

Alessandro Nora (10:39.662)
And actually exactly from this area, that's when I decided to build my second company, Metric Flow, because I realized how many challenges there were for companies to evaluate the impact of their products and supply chains.

Eric (10:40.874)
Yeah, that's a good segue into my next question. So I recently launched a B2B podcast media network, Alessandro. We are a group of podcasters and we help B2B brands raise awareness through ad sponsorships on podcasts. Every Friday, I send out this internal newsletter to the team, all of the podcasters.

I let them know any deals that are in progress that I'm working on, maybe something interesting in the podcasting world, and any other useful information. I try to be as transparent as possible. So what were some of the things that you guys were doing related to transparency in your operations at Stay? Like, how did customers know the authenticity of the information that you were providing to them in terms of sustainability credentials?

Alessandro Nora (11:37.646)
Yeah, that's a really good question. So we had two different aspects. One was the internal operations at STAIN and the other one was the criteria of our brands. As let's say the biggest impact of our company was referred to the partners that we would promote on our platform. So on the first hand, on the internal side, we created a sustainability report for two years where we would measure the impact of our operations. Let's say the office, the e -commerce operations.

as well as trying to understand what was the impact of our community by buying more responsible fashion compared to other items. On the second leg for the brands, we had an evaluation criteria. The outcome would be a score, which would define whether a company was sustainable enough to join the platform. And we would display the score on our platform so consumers could really understand on which areas would the brand perform better or worse.

Eric (12:18.32)
and evaluation criteria. The outcome would be a score, which would determine whether a company was sustainable enough to join the platform. And we would display the score on our platform, so consumers could really understand on which areas would the brand perform better.

Did you ever reject brands because they just did not have the high enough score?

Alessandro Nora (12:33.358)
as well as all the materials and production countries were disclosed transparently to the client so that they could really make, let's say, a fully conscious decision when purchasing items.

Alessandro Nora (12:48.75)
Yeah, it happened quite a lot. So we had over 250 brands on the platform and I believe we received over 700 applications. So we received more. So there was the first criteria was style to really match our, let's say user base. But the second part, which was very strict was the sustainability outside of things.

Eric (13:10.122)
Yeah, how did you relay the bad news to them that they couldn't join the platform, Alessandro?

Alessandro Nora (13:13.07)
There was a little topic that we had to reiterate over time, but we always offered a short overview of where we thought there were areas of improvement. So we would transparently disclose the scoring saying, Hey, here you score below the average. Maybe these are areas you could look into, and these are areas where maybe you perform better. So there's nothing you should worry about.

Eric (13:28.458)
Yeah.

Alessandro Nora (13:38.062)
And sometimes it was not taken so positively, but at the same time, I feel like it was, let's say, sort of important point for the companies to really dig deeper. Cause many times it's just, they didn't know some parts, but if you produce sustainable fashion, you should actually ask a lot of questions to your suppliers and really get to the deep of your productions and operations.

Eric (13:40.202)
Yeah, over 250 brands obviously lots of different people that are shopping on your site, but who?

What were some of your top personas, the people that were shopping? Was it a 35 -year -old woman who was vegan? Can you shed some details on that?

Alessandro Nora (14:18.606)
Yeah, absolutely. So over 80 % of the users were women. So this was, let's say the first big target. The age group was quite differently, but we had two main areas. The one was the woman between 30 to 35, 40, and then a bit older. In the first case, we saw a lot of women maybe working in tech or consulting. They were very aware about their lifestyle.

Or on the other side, maybe soon to be mothers that really had, let's say a pivotal moment where they felt, okay, I really need to take care of myself, of my kids. And so they decided to switch their lifestyle towards a more, let's say, sustainable and organic foods and so on.

Eric (14:43.914)
What was the average purchase price, like shopping cart, for those people?

Alessandro Nora (15:04.91)
Yeah, the average shopping cart was around 170 euros.

Eric (15:09.13)
Okay, I wonder how that compares to traditional e -commerce brands that are not focused on sustainability.

Alessandro Nora (15:16.01)
On Zalando, for example, the average is around 50, 60 euros. So it's about triple. At the same time, there's a lot of competition. The price point on our platform was quite high. So, but I think we were in a, let's say in a very interesting niche of the market.

Eric (15:20.138)
Oh wow.

Yeah, yeah, that's very interesting. Okay, Alessandro. So recently my wife and I, we saw this show on Netflix and I was alarmed because it was a show about how much gas emissions that our current food supply

basically turns out into the atmosphere. For example, livestock, cows, a single cow, every time they bilge about 220 pounds of methane annually can come out. And for those who don't know, methane is a gas that can reduce the amount of oxygen percentage in the air. So to do our part, we started eating less meat. So during the week, we don't really eat any meat. Last night I made meatballs, but instead of beef,

I actually made meatballs out of chickpeas and I thought they were quite good. My son didn't really care for them, but I thought they were good, right? So how is metric flow helping companies reduce their environmental impact from their supply chains?

Alessandro Nora (16:37.134)
Now that's really shocking when you look at these numbers. This was also one of the reasons why I decided to build Metric Flow. I came across the fact that industrial companies contribute for over 30 % of global greenhouse gas emissions. And out of these, over 90 % comes from supply chains, from the so -called scope -free emissions, which pretty much include what companies buy, all the raw materials, the transportation.

and then the end of life. So when you transport it to the clients, the use phase, and then let's say getting rid of that product at the end of the useful lifetime. What we did with Metric Flow, we built a software platform to empower companies, industrial companies to track, measure, and improve their operations across their supply chains. So in one platform, they're able to centralize all their suppliers, all their raw materials, all their operations.

Eric (17:06.09)
So when you transport it to the clients, they use space and then they get rid of that product at the end of the useful lifetime. What we did with Magicflow, we built a software platform to empower companies, industrial companies to track.

Okay, are you focused on a typical and a specific industry, Osandro?

Alessandro Nora (17:33.166)
and identify areas of improvement as well as measuring on a very granular level what is the impact of each activity.

Alessandro Nora (17:44.494)
So we focus mainly on medium to large size industrial companies. The key sectors we're seeing at the moment, they're quite different, but we have packaging, food, and fashion as the three core areas that we see because the three of them, they all involve sourcing of a lot of raw materials across the globe. Then there's a production phase that they usually own. So let's say it's controlled and then they have to distribute. So these three, let's say similarities enable us to.

Eric (17:58.216)
areas that we see because the three of them, they all involve sourcing of a lot of raw materials across the globe. And there's a production phase that they usually own. So let's say it's controlled and then they have to distribute. So these three, let's say, similarities enable us to focus well on this sector and really help them to improve. First of all, on a sustainability set of things, at the same time, there's also a lot of areas where you can reduce costs and become more financially viable.

Alessandro Nora (18:12.426)
focus well on this sector and really help them to improve, first of all, on a sustainability side of things. At the same time, there's also a lot of areas where you can reduce costs and become more financially viable.

Eric (18:26.634)
Okay, so how did this go around work? Did you create an MVP or did you all of a sudden just get lucky again and get all these new customers before you had a platform? Tell us about it.

Alessandro Nora (18:34.458)
So this, I think was more of the traditional startup story that you start bit by bit getting first clients. But the story is quite interesting. I was conducting a project in the sustainability department of stay. And we said, okay, let's ask our companies if they know the impact of their supply chains, if they can track it all. And we realized that most of the companies that passed our sustainability assessment, so we thought they were really sustainable, couldn't measure this. And we were wondering, why is that?

Eric (18:41.866)
I was conducting a project in the sustainability department of state and we said, okay, let's ask our companies if they know the impact of their supply chains, if they can track it all. And we realized that most of the companies that passed our sustainability assessment, so we thought they were really sustainable, couldn't measure this. And we were wondering, why is that?

Alessandro Nora (19:03.054)
And we found out that it was a very big problem that of course we couldn't invest the resources we needed to actually go deeper because we were an e -commerce marketplace platform. So four months later, I'm reading the newspaper and I see all these regulations coming up in Europe that are becoming mandatory. And they were exactly asking for what we wanted to solve in the first place. So with that insight, we said, okay, is it just the fashion industry or is it many other industries? And we came across...

Eric (19:04.234)
Yeah.

Eric (19:20.234)
So we're exactly asking for what we wanted to solve in first place. So with that insight, we said, okay, is it just the fashion industry or is it many other industries? And we came across the case of many industrial. So in Italy, for example, we have a very important manufacturing.

Alessandro Nora (19:30.126)
the case of many industrial. So in Italy, for example, we have a very important manufacturing economy. So we started talking to a lot of them and realized that most of them didn't know about the regulations and didn't have the data or tracking the data to do so. So we started the first year with a more of a consulting approach, talking with free for clients. We started building the MVP with the clients paying for the service.

Eric (19:37.224)
economy. So we started talking to a lot of them and realized that most of them didn't know about the regulations and didn't have the data or tracking the data to do so. So we started the first year with a more of a consulting approach of talking with three core clients. We started building the MVP with the clients paying for the service. And we recently just two months ago finalized the first version of the platform that is fully compliant with the regulations for carbon footprints and DSP assessment. And we now start

Alessandro Nora (19:55.854)
And we recently just two months ago finalized the first version of the platform that is fully compliant with the regulations for carbon footprint and ESG assessment. And we now start rolling out our private beta to empower companies to automate and simplify all the sustainability management.

Eric (20:07.1)
So, did you take any of the other co -founders or anybody else from that previous team with you on this new venture or is this specifically a new team altogether?

Alessandro Nora (20:24.878)
It's a new team I took on with two employees that were working with me on the design side and the sustainability side of things. So I knew they were really experts and we were working together. And I brought on two other co -founders, one with a technical background so that we could build the product without external funding from day one. And on the other side, another friend of mine who we came across to be very interested in the climate tech space and he had experience in investment banking.

Eric (20:52.298)
Okay, do you guys have any current clients right now or customers?

Alessandro Nora (20:54.424)
in the ESG space. So you could bring, let's say, the insights from, let's say, top down, while I could bring the insights from the bottom -up approach of the story.

Alessandro Nora (21:06.318)
Yes, we already have the first six clients from which we count a very big enterprise is the market leader of fertilizers in the world, Syngenta, and also very well known Italian food manufacturer Balocco. And we just secured a partnership to distribute our software with one of the biggest banking group in Italy.

Eric (21:23.05)
How is this done? In terms of, did you just like code call them or were you sending out emails? How did you do it?

Alessandro Nora (21:35.95)
Yeah. So the first one, Balocco, it was an interesting connection. We met at an event and then we found out to have a common friend. So this kind of smooth also the relationship. Well, on the other side, the other four, it came from cold emailing. So we have a very strong process about, let's say,

Eric (21:48.49)
The other four is the in -coding. So we have a very fun process about, let's say, filtering and finding out potential clients that really have this problem. And yeah, we ultimately get our reach out. So each channel is working very well from day to day. OK, the person responsible for that, is that somebody that's like a full -time team member? Are you outsourcing that?

Alessandro Nora (21:56.044)
filtering and finding out potential clients that really have this problem and Yeah, we automated our reach out. So this channel is working very well for us to create new leads

Alessandro Nora (22:12.622)
Yeah, we are taking care. So I started myself and then when I brought on board the second co -founder with the investment banking background, he started taking care of all the sales and bit by bit, we started automating and making it more smooth and efficient.

Eric (22:26.442)
Cool. Anybody for people who may be in the audience that are considering code emailing as an outbound strategy, any tips there, Alessandro?

Alessandro Nora (22:34.254)
Yeah, I think it's an extremely, it can be an extremely effective, um, tool. Of course you need to focus on quality and volume at the same time. So you really need to know your user personas so that with an email, you can really take their interest. Consider these people might be contacted several times a day by the same providers. You really need to stick out. And then from there, I believe if you build, um, let's say.

Eric (22:42.314)
quality and volume at the same time. So you will need...

on us so that with an email you can really take the interest. Consider these people might be contacted several times a day by the same providers you really need to stick out. And then from there I believe we can build, let's say,

Alessandro Nora (23:01.934)
a good strategy so I can recommend some tools like Apollo or Streak for let's say scraping and then automating these aspects. It really works well and you need to focus on volume and really track, do a lot of A -B testing and see how each campaign or each target segment performs so that you can see the partners, the patterns and then building more and more successfully.

Eric (23:02.794)
All right, what are you excited about it in the next 12 months? I was under

Alessandro Nora (23:27.726)
Next 12 months, there's a lot happening. So we have these partnerships about distribution that are coming out. A lot of consulting companies that would like to use the software to make the work of their consultants more efficient as the software brings a layer of automation. And we have a lot of features in the roadmap. So definitely focusing on clients, making sure that the product we're building is the right one that really fits their needs and scaling at the same time.

Eric (23:36.842)
that would like to use the software to make the work of their consultants more efficient, because the software brings a layer of automation. And we have a lot of...

Eric (23:49.034)
Awesome awesome. Okay. I got a few rapid -fire questions for you. Are you ready? All right, what is the craziest thing you ever did to either make money or save money?

Alessandro Nora (24:00.79)
Ready.

Alessandro Nora (24:08.75)
So when I was younger, I love, I was always very social. I love to go to events and parties. So I decided to collaborate with the organizers so that I could bring all my friends for a much cheaper price and I could always get in for free and also make a bit of side money as I was attending events, meeting people and having fun.

Eric (24:09.482)
So when it was young.

Eric (24:29.514)
I love that idea. Alright, I like that idea. That's a good one. That's a good one. Okay, fill in the blank here. I grew up in blank and my favorite thing about that city is blank.

Alessandro Nora (24:42.638)
I grew up in a beautiful place and my favorite part is the seaside.

Eric (24:47.594)
Okay, you don't want to name the city? Oh, Genova. Okay, okay. When you were a kid, you wanted to be blank.

Alessandro Nora (24:49.134)
Genova.

Alessandro Nora (24:59.15)
Well, an astronaut, I guess.

Eric (25:02.422)
Okay, which has the better food? Italy, Germany, or perhaps another country that you lived in?

Alessandro Nora (25:10.286)
Italy wins hands down every time.

Eric (25:14.13)
Last question for you. The best advice your mom or dad ever gave you.

Alessandro Nora (25:21.198)
Love yourself and never give up.

Eric (25:24.554)
That's great advice. That's great advice. Alessandro, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Alessandro Nora (25:29.838)
Thank you so much, Eric. It was a pleasure.

Eric (25:32.426)
Yeah, for everybody listening, I'm going to drop Alessandro's LinkedIn profile in the show notes as well as links to his website, metricflowindustday .com as well. All right, for those listening, if you enjoyed this, tell others about it, hit that subscribe button. That's how we grow. I appreciate it. Until then, this is Eric signing off. Cheers.