Journey to Freedom: Becoming a Digital Nomad and Showing others how to build authority on LinkedIn with Jessie van Breugel

So it started for me all with like, like I was writing on LinkedIn already, like early 2020, about some of like the product management books I read or like, like product development, which was interesting for me and I was like, okay, I can already write on, on LinkedIn. And then at some point I figured out that I could.

Right on medium. com and get paid like an American black blogging platform. And I was like, well, I can rise from my bedroom and make money while I can be a millionaire in 30 days, which of course didn't turn out the way as I expected it to be. But again, it got me on this path of like. Being a digital creator, creating content.

So where most people, I would say build a business first or go into business first and then do content. I did content for like a year and a half before I was able to actually turn it into a business. That's Jesse van Brugge, founder of the creator Academy and who was named number 36 in the world. And the category of sales and marketing on LinkedIn, Jesse teaches clients how to write better content and generate more quality leads on LinkedIn.

In this conversation. We talk about his journey into becoming a digital nomad and the mistakes. He sees a lot of people make when trying to establish their authority and write content on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this episode. As you listen, you can find me on LinkedIn at Eric Melchor tag me, say, hello, let me know that you're listening.

And now let's chat with Jesse. Good afternoon, Jesse. Well, for you, it's actually good morning because I think you're on the other side of the world. Is that correct? Where are you at right now? Exactly. Yeah. It's at 7 AM. It's early sunrise. It's a, I'm based in Costa Rica, so it's on the other side of the ocean.

All right. All right. So I saw a post and you were having coffee in your favorite cafe in Costa Rica, and I couldn't help but notice that tattoo on your right leg. Now it wasn't just one tattoo. It almost covered like your entire leg. I couldn't make out what it was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't like an image of Britney Spears or anything.

So I thought, what is that tattoo of? And can you tell us about it? Yeah. So it's actually not one piece. I think we. Did seven or eight sessions the last two and a half months. So for now, I'm pretty like done with like, like the tattooing stuff, but it's basically in an Eastern kind of style. So on my shin, I have a, a, a traditional mask from Indonesia, from Bali, and the rest of my leg is kind of covered in mandalas and some ornaments and some, some geometrical dot work, which I really love.

So all in all, it looks like a really cohesive leg sleeve. And this, you got done in Costa Rica or somewhere else? No, in Colombia. So I did this, this in Colombia and Medellin where I was based from January till. late, late June. Yeah. I found a really good artist. We, we build up a really good connection.

He first finished my arm, which was like a, like a year long project. And then I was like, Hey, I got an empty leg and you've got time. Let's work together. So we, we build out a game plan. And like I said, it was like seven or eight sessions together. So close to 50 hours in like six or seven weeks. So it was.

Not fun at times, but I'm really happy how the result turned out. Okay. Now I'm a virgin when it comes to tattoos. I don't have any. So how long does a typical session go here, Jesse? I would say in advance, like I only have like long tattoos, like, or like big tattoos, like as you can see, my whole arm is like done and my whole leg is done.

I know I don't go in for like the small ornaments. So my sessions usually last like between six to eight hours. Okay. Now, isn't this a little painful? At least that's what I've heard. Certain parts are very painful. Like I got my knee pit done, which seemed to be like, the people told me, okay, this is the most painful spot of the body.

So I was kind of low key afraid. It turned out for me to be okay ish, but I struggled a lot with like the inside of my upper, upper thigh. And like all the way, like on the, on the, on the top of my calf. So close to the knee pit. And that's where the parts where I struggled. So it's, I think it's different for everyone, but in general, it's not, I prefer to go to the gym than getting a tattoo, but still I am having.

Okay. Now, mentally, how did you psych yourself up for this? I mean, was there anything that you basically told yourself or tried to visualize during, during the sessions to get through it? It depends where, where am I, where the tattoo artist is like, like working with certain parts. I can like easily like be on my phone and, and for example, do some work on LinkedIn or just chat with people.

There are certain parts that I have to like plug in my earphones and listen to like blasting hardcore music because I was like, I need to tune out. What I found out with with tattooing is that it's one of those. I would say rare moments that I don't think of anything because I'm just occupied. I'm really present.

So I'm just sitting there sometimes like six, seven hours. I'm just like staring and just meditating. Yeah. So, yeah, I, I just go in like, okay, today I have, I have time to think, but I'm also time to just be. So it's a, it's an interesting, interesting day. All right. Well, it sounds like you can juggle multiple things there and be productive while you're doing this.

Okay. Now you're a highly sought after LinkedIn branding strategist, which we're going to get into in a minute. But before we do that, I want to know a bit about your background. Where did you grow up and what was one of your favorite childhood toys that you played with Jesse? Oh, that's a, that's a question.

That's a good question. So. If people think of my, or look at my surname or perhaps at my accent, they can guess that I'm from, from Amsterdam, from Holland. And so that's where I grew up spent most of my, my adult life. Like I grew up like in a small town close to Amsterdam, but I think I lived in Amsterdam for like seven to eight years.

So my adult life has been, has been played out there. Started a digital nomad journey, as they call it, by accident. Early, early 2021. So now I've been basically like, some people call it homeless. I call it just like location independent. So I've been traveling. How did you like, you know, you just kind of like wander off the sidewalk and go on a plane and land somewhere.

So there was a little bit of planning involved, right? I wouldn't say so. Like, of course there were some, some conditions in place that made it, made it possible. But it was early, early 2021. My relationship ended, I got into freelancing. Amsterdam was locked down for global, global reasons. And I was like, F it.

I am not going to stay stuck in my bedroom. I figured out that Costa Rica was like open and just like living life. So I Googled co working Costa Rica and I found this very small town where I'm currently again. It was on the Pacific Ocean and I looked at the map and I was like, how bad could it be? Like, like winter in Europe, lockdown or Costa Rican paradise.

I was like, okay. Two weeks later, I came here and I would say that that accelerated my whole digital nomad journey. I've been out around the globe a few times in the last two and a half years. So like I said, by accident, but before that, I always like loved traveling. So then I was like, Hey, I can, my travel.

With entrepreneurship, it's been a really hard journey, but I enjoyed every second of it. Okay, cool. What are like your, just an estimate monthly expenses in Costa Rica? Cause I'm pretty sure many people are wondering like, Hey, you know, if I were to do this, I'm just wondering like. Average monthly, you know, expenses, how much would I need if I want to live, you know, a decent lifestyle there as a digital nomad?

Yeah, I would say don't look at Costa Rica as the first option because especially nowadays, I think it's more expensive than, than Europe. It's, yeah, it's the prices are extremely high. Like groceries and stuff like I, I don't pay much for rent. So I kind of like that's, but like groceries and going after food is really overpriced because everything here is important, important, sorry.

And just the country tries on tourism. So especially now after like people come back here, it's just like the prices shoot up. Yeah. So I would say between like 1500 to 2000 USD US dollars. I think you can, you can live here, but that's, I would say. Without any like crazy touristy things as like tours or hikes or fancy hotels.

So the, so it kind of depends on like how you want to like. Like, like spend your time here as a digital nomad, I would say it's, it's for people that I would say just start out like Bali is, is easier, or as I said before, like I spent quite some time in Columbia as well. That's a good spot. Or I think Mexico, like on the coast is like similar to Costa Rica, but then like half the prices.

Okay. All right. Interesting to know. And now I went to Costa Rica many years ago. I can't remember the name of the town I went to, but what town are you at right now? I am based in Samara, which is on the south of the Nicoya Peninsula. That's close to Santa Teresa and Nosara, which are more, more known amongst travelers.

But Samara is like real small. Like you run into the same people like five times a day. You walk everything like bare feet. So it's a huge contrast from spending time in Medellin where I had to take an Uber like four or five times a day because the city was like so broad and still I didn't even leave and leave my, my neighborhood because there are so many like big neighborhoods in the city.

So it's a big contrast, but I'm only here for a month now because I'm heading back to Europe in a few weeks. So it's, it's nice to have like a, like a beach break while still being productive. Yeah. All right. Very, very cool. Okay. Now, Jesse, what are your first jobs? Who's working as a promoter for an organization called Pepper Mines?

I think you did code acquisition by going door to door, trying to get new donors. Can you tell us about that? Because I think I have a gut feeling that what you did in this position kind of segwayed into many other, many other things that you're, you're doing, including, you know, your role now. It's funny.

Did you bring that one up? Because I kind of hated the job because it was so out of my comfort zone. But it was a great, great training ground. Like, yeah. So context there. Like in small groups, often with like students from my own. So I think I was like 18 or 19. So we just went to like some, I don't know, like hidden place, like close to Amsterdam, some hidden municipality that even no one like even know of, knew of.

Sorry. Even though we're like from the country. I was like, okay, let's go to this, this town for a day. And then you go there with your, with your team and you go door to door. And yeah, you get rejected like 99. 9 percent of the time only to get like. Like four or five on a good day, perhaps six, seven people that say yes, and they, they buy the thing.

So some days you didn't earn much like 20, 20 euros, which is like 20 bucks equivalent or some days what you had like a good day, you can make like 150. So it was a lot of like spread, but I liked the flexibility of it. Although I didn't like the, like the confrontation part, but I'm pretty sure it gave me the skills that allows me now to feel more confident than just making an ask, doing or making an offer and just.

Being fine with being rejected because I know it's not personal. It's allowed. Okay. Yeah. It's the offer that people perhaps don't like, whereas speaking to the wrong people. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then later on, you were, I think at a company and I'm going to pronounce this wrong, but I think it's called Gideon or something like that.

Right. And you're, you had a role as a team lead managing 25, 30 different on call workers, and how did you make the leap from there? To almost going or practically going full time as a solo entrepreneur because I thought that was a pretty good jump there pretty Pretty I mean in my mind, you know, there's got to be a change strategically in your mindset But then also realizing at the same time, something that you're really good at and you can help others with.

So when was that light bulb moment and when did you make that decision to go full time as a solopreneur? Yeah. So like the job that you refer to, that was actually my first full time for, for a job. So straight after graduating, I got in charge, like you said, like a team of like 25, like on call. Like workers, which was challenging because I was just 24, I had like no management or leadership experience.

But again, throwing into the deep end and I'll figure it out. That's one of my favorite things to say. After that, I went to two more, two more corporate jobs. And then, then I made the leap to like solopreneurship. And again, it was, I would say, very similar to like the travel like Schless Digital Nomads adventure was like kind of without a plan.

But by circumstances and putting the pieces together, I was like, okay, well, I fit let's, let's take a leap. So it started for me all with like, like I was writing on LinkedIn already, like early 2020. About some of the product management books I read, or like like product development, which was interesting for me.

And I was like, okay, I can already write on LinkedIn. And then at some point I figured out that I could write on medium. com and get paid like an American blogging platform. Yeah. And I was like, well, I can rise from my bedroom and make money while I can be a millionaire in 30 days, which of course didn't turn out the way as I expected it to be.

But again, it got me on this path of like. Being a digital creator, creating content. So where most people, I would say build a business first or go into business first and then do content. I did content for like a year and a half before I was able to actually turn it into a business. Okay. That's incredible.

I mean, you remind me of a younger version, a little bit of myself. I went, I moved to New York, didn't have a job, but I knew I could figure it out. And And I did. I mean, obviously I had to like wait tables for a while before I got like a real, a real job, but definitely adventurous. I, I don't know if I'm as adventurous as you are because you're relying on your own skillset and not relying on somebody else to employ you, which I find very, very fascinating.

After a quick break, Jesse and I talk about some of the tactics he uses to teach others on how to create content that attracts eyeballs and converts. All right, let's take a quick break and tell you about. Easy sales. That's right. The sponsor of our podcast. If you sell products online or through a physical store, easy sales helps you list your products on other marketplaces like EMAG, OLX, and eBay all without having to do any coding.

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And so you should learn more about easy sales. How it can help improve your business at easy sales. com. Welcome back to my conversation with Jesse. As a content creator myself on LinkedIn, I wanted to hear what Jesse thinks as to whether or not someone will be successful building their brand on LinkedIn.

So how did you get your first clients? I mean, how did that evolve into, did you start pitching people through DMS on LinkedIn saying, Hey, I can help you out with your personal branding? What was the pitch Jesse? Yeah. I've tried many, many different ways. And I would say what I found the most is that I've never been a big fan of like cold outreach or like cold calling.

Like I hate cold calling. It gives me just like shivers. I'm like, no, no, no. So that's, I think when I early on found that I could do my, I could have my content do the selling for me. So I started on, like I said, on, on, on medium. That turned out to be okay. I have a good training ground for developing and sharpening my writing skills.

Then I went on to Twitter, Twitter, it was late 2020. And then I was just like involved in it, like creator economy. And I was like, Oh, I can actually build products like templates or things and sell that. So I started doing that on Gumroad, which was more of like a. Like, like, like transactional way of selling.

And then early 2021, I like a friend that I met from, from Twitter. He and I were like, Hey, let's, let's build a first cohort. So it was funny because. All the way back, I, I built my first cohort with him, which we run three additions, and then the selling as to, to answer your question is like, we'll just put out posts and people reply to that.

We had a DM conversations and we closed them. So base, it was funny because that's the model that I currently use on LinkedIn two years later. But back then I was already using it, even though I was like, I would say not skilled enough to do it, but we learned by trial and error. And I would say later down the road, like my process shifts a little bit more to the, towards the traditional.

Okay. Let's book a discovery call and let's follow up on that. But if I just look at all my stats, I made the most money through like the conversational DM calls in the last three and a half years and through sales calls. So I'm not saying they're bad. They just work for me less efficient than the other models.

So it's fun to think that early 2021, I was already doing what I did now. And I'm like, just circling back how it's begun. Yeah. Yeah. But I also saw in a recent post, you said that the challenge for most people on LinkedIn isn't getting more followers. It's about making their followers take action. So question for you, how do you transform your followers into your next clients?

Any, any secrets that you can share with us, Jesse? Yeah. Yeah. There is some, some nuance to apply there. I was like, first I would say a big, big majority of the people that ended up with me on like a client base. They weren't even followers or me or they never engaged her. I liked with my comment, but they saw my post, like what I often refer to as like hand raise or posts and that force them and take the action, which in often case, like sent a DM, then we had a conversation and then became a client.

So I would say that's, that's something to, to be aware of. Like often our clients are not hidden in in our follower base. But in case they are. I think that's where like, like nurturing content comes into play. So. That could, that could be either on LinkedIn or through email on LinkedIn. It could be content that I see as much more of like the, like educational slash persuasive content.

So let's say I speak about like a case studies. A case study from a recent client. But in that post, I educate my audience how it looks like working with me, because I know by doing that, I move the reader closer to working with me. Because often our prospects don't really understand, especially in the service base, they don't really understand what it is they're working with, with a coach or consultant.

So we kind of want to educate them a little bit on that without. I'll give them all the details. So like one of the concepts that I learned from like a mentor of mine, which I'm working with since October is like, okay, you want to speak about the why and the what and leave out the how, because that makes people like, Hmm, I want to know more.

Okay. Let's send Jesse a DM. So I think that's where I did nurturing face from your con the nurturing. Like aspects from the content comes into play. And that's why I'm so big on content because it's literally my, I'm stealing this quote from, from Dickie Bush from ship 30 fraternity, but he sees content as like a, like an army of digital warriors.

Like I can write content, like where there's a LinkedIn post, a newsletter, a YouTube video. I can post that, I can send it into the ether. I can go to bed and I know it's like conquering the world for me. So that's my mindset in terms of content. So that's where we can put out strategically the right content to nurture audience.

So the moment they're ready, like, Hey, I've seen Jesse stuff for a while. I think now I'm ready to, to work with him on this. I know the next step. Okay. That, that, that is awesome. So any, any success cases that you've had with different clients, can you share, you don't have to go into details, like the name of the person or anything, but just kind of give us an example of like, who's an ideal client that you work with and what was some of the success that they've seen from working with them?

Yeah, that's me. So summarize a few, a few clients at the same time, because I see, I see a big trend there. It's like in a nutshell, like I work with, with people that, that provide a good service. So it's often I can done for you or done with your service. So either as like coaches, consultants, ghostwriters, email specialists, et cetera, they're an expert at what they do, but they, they lack this, this, this marketing.

So like I said, they had, they're, they're great at what they do. They're getting their clients, great results. But besides that, their world, the world is pretty small. So I help them position themselves as the expert they are so they can share their world, how they can help them. And I think one of the biggest, big epiphanies from, from those clients that I work with is like, they're creating content, but they're really heavy on the educational part.

So they're trying to. Educate their audience on everything, but their audience is not necessarily looking for more information. Their audience is looking for more implementation, guidance, support, and accountability. So I helped them make the switch from, okay, purely educational content to more like authority building and lead generating content.

So it's kind of like shaping the way how they say things and then they see stuck out clients coming in. So I think that's, that's a big change there. A little bit of clarity as well. And so, yeah, I think it's, it's that switch plus just tapping into much more of the, like the emotions, their audience or their prospects feel.

So for me, big, big, big part of my role is how is understanding their clients. To give them the clarity to speak to their client. So it's a little bit of like perspective change all the time. All right. All right. And based on your experience, how do you determine, or how do you tell if someone is gonna be successful building their brand and building their authority?

Is there something that, is there any like characteristics that some of your clients do or you know, certain disciplines that they may have? A big chunk is already like the active content creation part, because I can tell, I can teach someone all the, all the fundamentals, but if they're not comfortable sharing their perspective for their content on LinkedIn or through their preferred platform, it's really hard for me to get them over that mental obstacle.

Because most of the, like the, the creator game is, is mental, especially in the beginning. So that's not something that I was sure I can, I can push them, but if they don't feel comfortable doing that, there is not much I can do. So that's one of the big things that I look for in my clients. Like, Hey, how comfortable are you already sharing?

How much of that riding muscle do you have? Because again, I don't help them build, build that habit, but I'm helping them to say the right things and sharpen that knife also there needs to be a validated offer because. The amount of people that I speak to, and that's not to like, like talk bad about it, but like, they have like ideas, like, Oh, I want to create XYZ.

Can you help me? I'm like, cool. But do we know if people actually want to have it? No, no, no. I haven't spoken to anyone. Okay. Let's do that first. Let's build, validate first, then build. So I think like having the writing muscle in place, the writing habits, plus having something they got at least one or two people have said yes to their work with people on, because again, It's really hard to shape the content that I spoke to earlier, like the authority building constant and the lead writer in content, if all they have is ideas of what their audience want, besides just like actual realized track record, social proof, a client insights, et cetera.

So I think those are the two big pillars, like having a good offer, which is validated and having the writing muscle plus having the confidence, because then it's just me. It's, it's helping them, it's shaping them and just guiding them instead of like building the foundation up from the ground. Yeah, no, that is so true.

I mean, even just simple things like customer surveys or even surveys on LinkedIn can really help you get, you know, direction. So that way you're not wasting time on writing the content or working on building something new that nobody wants. I think I asked recently, what is it about networking events that you need the help with the most?

And some of the choices were conversation openers, just having more confidence. Following up with people and then a couple of other choices and by far what was surprising to me is that most people said following up with people and I would have never thought that was the main the main issue that people had So it was pretty eye opening for me, but I would have never known how to not ask that question To my audience.

So another question for you, Jesse, before we go into the rapid fire questions here, failure can sometimes teach us, you know, more than our, our actual wins here. When you look back on your life and you remember when you had, you know, a failure, what did you learn from it? And how has it shaped who you are today?

That's a very amorphous question. But I would say one of the, like the things that I keep repeating myself to in terms of like the entrepreneur journey, and I'm, I'm very aware that I'm, I'm new to the game. I think two days from now, it marks my three year anniversary of like writing online. And I feel I've just started, but one of the big lessons that I got, I'd say, throughout those, those, I'd say this first season is just like, like, keep continuing.

Like I, I stole, I stole this, this saying from, from Alex Ramosi. It's like, I can't, I cannot lose if I don't quit. So for me, it's just like, okay, put in the reps, put in the reps, put one day, one more day of content, one more day of like building the structure, building this, this foundation. And then over time, like, ah, I'm actually like getting there.

Like I started on LinkedIn, I think 16 months ago. With like no idea. Like because, like, because I figured out, okay, the Twitter doesn't work for me. I tried LinkedIn a few times and, okay, let's stick to LinkedIn for now for 30 days. Again, I just set a challenge for myself and that challenge turning turned out to be like the challenges currently, and I'm still running the streak.

And now I've got like a 30K audience and my business is around that. And I just built on like the mindset like, okay, I cannot lose if I don't quit because if I don't quit success becomes inevitable because in the number of people that I've seen around me coming up and coming go, because they just stopped is, is enormous.

So I'm like, okay, well, I know it's not going to be perfect, but I focus on the output and then the outcome will come. And I think that's like the big overarching lesson from, from going through the high highs and through the low lows in the last three and a half years. Yeah, I love that. And I can't believe this because you just said you've got about 30, 000 followers on LinkedIn, which I can validate because I was looking at some of your, your, your posts in your profile.

And you said that you've been on LinkedIn a little more than a year, which is. Quite incredible. So for those who are looking to, to try to turn some of their followers into actual customers and just get better at building their brand, where do you advise them to go if they want to learn more, Jesse? Well, they can, they can always find my, my content on LinkedIn.

It's Jesse van Bruggel, really Dutch. So that's why early in my LinkedIn journey, I added a purple dot, like the purple emoji to my LinkedIn name, because my brand colors are purple. And that stuck with me. People call me even like the purple, the purple guy, the purple lead guy, the purple, the purple, whatever that I got, I got many like names with purple in it, so it's basically all, I got always called out when I don't wear a purple shirt.

So anyways, Jesse van Bruggel on LinkedIn. On YouTube, on Twitter, if people want to like get more of like the insights, I run a daily newsletter, which is called the premium lead letter, which people can find on the premium lead system. com. And basically I share all the, all the content free because I try to be the guide that I wish I had early on.

I sound, I know it sounds quirky, but I'm like, well, I learned from people ahead of me. So I want to give back to the people that are a few steps behind me. Okay. Okay. All right. I've got a few rapid fire questions for you. Just give me the first answer that comes to your head. Are you ready? All right, Jesse, 25, 000 cash or dinner with Gary Vee or dinner with dinner with Gary Vee.

Number one strategy to prioritize your time. Wow. I asked myself, well, okay, what moves the needle the most? And then often I answer, can it comes like, okay, what does, what's the best decision to make right now? If you're going to only make the one decision, like for me, just like pen and paper into like, right.

Okay. This is the one. Okay. Let's go. Okay. Yeah. I like that one. I like that one. I try to do that one myself every morning. Next question. Who would be most upset if you quit your business and decided to go back and get a job at a corporation? Me. Okay. Okay. What is your biggest win in the last seven days?

Oh, that's a good one. In the last seven days. Well, I started doing paid advertisement. I just like running tests with that. And like the first lead came in through that. I'm like, okay, I'm not full of shit. This thing works for me. Was that like paid LinkedIn ads or something else? No, I'm, I'm testing with a meta platform.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Next question. The most interesting thing you did in the last 26 days. This should be easy. I mean, you're all over the world, like Columbia, Costa Rica. I don't know where you're wrestling with an alligator. Jesse was not recently. No, not recently. No, I would say doing two days of tattooing back to back was pretty intense, especially because I was in a plane a few hours later.

So I was like all in, like all covered up in like the, like the, the, the, the plastic on my upper, upper tie and. It becomes a mess because they tattoo for like seven to eight hours. They plastered the plastic over it. Like the skin is all burned and stuff. So I was sitting in a plane at some point. I was like, Hey, my, my, my leg is wet.

And I went to the toilet, had to remove the plastic and clean my tattoo in a airplane toilet. So I know it's a weird story, but it kind of ties into, to, to that. So yeah, that's besides that, it's just me working. Yeah, no, I can imagine that must have been so uncomfortable. And I bet you couldn't wait for that flight to get over.

Yeah, it was, it was it was a long, long hour flight. Yeah. Okay. Last question for you and unusual food or drink that you like to consume. Beef liver. I am on the animal based diet since since a year and a half. And it's absolutely amazing. I came from that before as a vegan. So I made a complete U turn and I would say beef liver, it's not, it's not that tasteful, but it gives me like superpower.

So that's why I eat it on a daily basis. Beef liver. All right. You can get this in Columbia and Costa Rica. Yeah. We, I have like access to one of the, like the, the, the best quality here, like grass hat, organic, they come from like the Capitol and every Wednesday they drive down to our village. And again, they go to delivery.

So I also had like the, the, the big beef hearts, like huge, two pounds of thing. I have to cut them all up. So it's kind of like a mental exercise as well, but I'm eating that on a daily. And like I said, I feel really good. Okay. All right. All right. There you have it. Jesse here. I will put all the links to the show notes.

Jesse, thank you so much for coming on Innovators Can Laugh. For sure. I had a good time, Eric. Thanks for having me. Okay. For everybody listening, we'll be back next week with another Dutch startup founder. I can't say if this person is going to be across the world somewhere, or maybe they'll just be in the Netherlands, but we'll find out.

All right. Thanks everybody. This is Eric signing off. I had a wonderful time chatting with Jesse. I find it so amazing that he's been able to build a lifestyle that he wants on his own terms and live in so many exotic places. I also liked what he said about the challenge for most people on LinkedIn.

It's not getting more followers, but making their followers take action. If you want to learn more about Jesse, find him on LinkedIn at Jesse Van Brugel. Links to all of this are now in the show notes and on the ICO website. Thank you to Jesse for being on the show. If you like this episode, subscribe to Innovators Can Laugh on Spotify, Apple, or on YouTube and tell others about it.

Thank you.