Andrius Rimkunas on a smart, wireless, GPS-powered alarm system, Lithuanian state television, hitting rock bottom, and more

Hey ICO fans. I hope you're staying cool. Right now. I was in Texas, recently visiting family. And there were consecutive days of 41 Celsius degree weather outside. Yes. Very, very hot. That was about 105 degrees. For those of you in the states. All right, getting to our show. This is a previous chat I had with Andreas Bruno co-founder and business developer at Mon Moto, which is a super easy to use anti theft, GPS tracker for motorcycles.

Andreas entrepreneurial journey is quite remarkable as he has a background in it, radio marketing and project management. He describes himself as a bit of a crazy person. And after you hear some of his entrepreneurial pursuit, You'll understand why, if you're interested in hearing a story about an entrepreneur who hit rock bottom only to rise up again, then this is the episode for you.

Let's dive in.

You are listening to innovators can laugh with Eric Cher, where I dive into the interesting and fascinating stories of innovators and startup founders from Europe. Let's dive in. All right. My guest today is Andreas Bruno Ramas co-founder of Moni Moto, which is an affordable, easy to use reliable, smart GPS tracker with a year's battery life that cleverly alerts your phone.

If your motorcycle is, has been moved. Hey, welcome Andreas. Welcome to the show. How you doing today? Hi, Eric. Thanks for having, having me here. Really well. What about you? I'm doing pretty good tomorrow. We're hitting you out to the mountain. Spending Christmas with my, with the in-laws and my, my sister-in-law and her family.

So I'm pretty excited about it. I'm hoping that this year they'll they'll cook something different than what they made last year, because for like four days in a row, all I ate, what it seemed to me was like pork for four days in a row, it was just too much, you know, I was like, Hey, I, I don't wanna have pork again for a year.

It was too. So, what are you gonna be doing for Christmas? Well, I hope I won't be, I won't be eating that much. As the, you know, it used to be a few years ago, we had all the, I guess we all had this quarantine, you know, diet. So I had kept two limits limit ourselves a bit, but yeah. I think it's the last day before before the Christmas Eve we have this I I've been reading somewhere just.

There is a 24th of December is a day of bank, holiday days in Lithia and Poland might be some other country as well, but it's a day before Christmas, you know, it's the Eve when the well officially Christ was born. So we are like celebrating 24th and then 25th and then 26th. And it depends whether we are celebrating 27th.

Yeah. Yeah. So lots of celebration. Hey, I'm curious during this celebration, is there a type of food that is tradition and maybe it's a type of food that you don't necessarily like, but they make it and you feel obligated to eat it. Is there anything like that on the menu during the traditions?

Always, always like that. So, you know, I hate hearing. I just don't understand it. You know, I can eat salmon and other fish, but herring is not effort for me, but it's really, really popular unity. And you during the Christmas, you know, time. Yeah. And well, I guess it's it takes like what hundreds, 200 years, you know, to, to build this tradition and you cannot avoid that.

so it's something, something, you know, and then I guess it's coming from the old ancient times. There has to be 12 dishes on the table. I think it's for one per each month, you know? So it's symbolizes that next year. They all, they, all the 12 months will be like, you know fine. Nice. And Good.

So yeah, you have to kind of try 12 dishes, okay. When you are the table. So it's something like that. Yeah. But on my piece, it's herring and I guess, you know, it's well, Before all the, you know, big events there is a period of you know, some diet. So officially, you know, those who are religious, they are not eating meat or some, you know other foods the well, Greece maybe like 30 days before that, or so, and then, you know, the F starts and you are eating everything.

So it, it's kind of a, you know, this event. So yeah, normally this Syrians and you know, I guess the, the, our neighbors Uhhuh used to eat a lot during the Chrysalis time. Have you been fasting, Andrea? No. all right. All right. okay. Well, well, Hey so I wanna start off with just some personality questions, so that way the audience can kind of get to know a little bit about you.

We'll jump into Monte Moto in just a second here. But first question I have for you is what is a major sporting event? Or maybe even a concert, like a, like a music band that you really like, that you would love to see one day? Well, my wife hates it's, you know, when she says, oh, there is some artist, you know, coming and we should go to the concert.

And for me, I'm I'm extrovert, but I just don't like this, you know, mass of people, you know squeezing into some one space and then listening to some well questionable quality you know sound mm-hmm and But I would definitely go to something like, you know, Goldie and the orchestra. Okay. So, you know, Goldie is a German bass hero from coming from UK.

He's a promoter and producer of German bass music. And he DIDs this big event of the Royal orchestra you know, together. And the sound is like something amazing, like the, the, the classical, you know, sound and then the modern written. Okay. And for me, it was like mind blowing. All right. All right.

Okay. Next question for you. What is a TV show or movie that you can watch again and again? Well, in my family, it's mainly in black and matrix, I think. Yeah. Okay. Are you gonna watch the new one coming out? I don't even know. Is it out yet? Matrix? I saw the trailer. I don't know when it's out, but definitely.

Yeah, we will. Yeah. Yeah. I look forward to watching it too. It's one of those things that you have to watch it in the theater, cuz you just don't get the same experience. At home watching it on the TV or on your laptop. Sure. Sure. Out of all these 100 times you watch this movie, you should, you know, watch it at least once in a cinema.

Yeah, yeah. Or eight. Yeah. All right. Last fun question for you. Andreas, does pineapple belong on pizza? Sure. this is something, you know, I could you know, touch for Italians. I'm traveling to Italy a lot, actually. So this is where, you know, I feel like testing them, you know? Yeah. Could I have some pineapple on top and some, you know, I guess.

Percent of them are totally fine that others starting the, the like, well, very emotional conversation. I really enjoy that. Has any of them ever towed you get out here no, no, no, but it's kind of a, you know, it's a, a real religion issue. I would say, you know, there is always like PC and neck and maybe, you know, whatever I diesel or, or petrol, and then it say, yeah, I alone pizza or not.

So this is this type of thing. And I do enjoy, you know trolling other people. Okay. Let's start off talking a little bit about early in your career before your entrepreneurial ventures. You had roles at the Lithuanian state, television, and radio, and also at a freaky production house. What were some of the skills that you learned performing these roles that helped you become a better entre?

I was thinking about that a lot, especially when my daughters when I 16, another 14, you know, gets the, the, this age when they are questioning okay. Who, you know, going to, to be what I'm going to work, should I choose the career path and so on. And I was reading lots of books and articles about that.

And, you know, there is a theory about this square type of person T type T shape you know, person and so on. And. Then it's a distinction of yearly well, what's that career path, you know, or late and late means building, you know, lots and lots of very, very different experiences. So this is what I had actually, because, you know, when I was what I guess 15, we, it was a crazy times.

It was like Sini just got to the independence and, you know, we were, we are on the borderland. So, you know, it was a trading. I was actually jealous because I was a bit too young to go to this trading stuff. Like, you know, buying the German cars from German, used cars from Germany and bringing them to Ukraine or Russia.

And then from Russia, you could take metals and bring to Germany and do you know, lots of trading and so on. So I ended up with the. Buying the lab, the Russian cars Uhhuh, which are shipped from UK. So they are the, the driving wheelers on the right side. So my job was to, you know, to put the, this you know, on the left side and sell to Ukrainian or Georgian and or Russian people.

Okay. So I, I learned how to, you know, paint the cars. I would do the welding, you know, and all other stuff. So this is what's very early stuff. Then I used to, to, to go that by trading. Or even before that, I guess it was the, the trader skill. When well, in, in there is a saying in Soviet union, there were no sex.

And, you know, actually there were no education, no books about that at all. And then it was a book called the, well, the essence of sexology or something like that. And the book was you know, very rear people were just, you know, buying it like crazy. It was a totally new and fresh thing. And I had somewhere to buy them, you know, in bulk and the price was what, something like five rubs, maybe something like that.

And I was selling for 25 for all the kids and adults in my, you know, yard. So yeah, I was selling like crazy back then. So then I went to the musical shop where, you know, I was fascinated by the fact that keyboards can be connected to the, to the computers. And this is. Where I ended up you know building, assembling the computers, some specific ones with specific sound cards for composers inthe and so on.

So this is what, one of the skills, you know, that, that I had. And then eventually I went to the radio and I had to take care up, take care about the, both computers in the radio station. That that was like back in 2, 19 95, I guess. Mm-hmm . And then I, I, I was working nighttime as a radio. Hosta or DJ. And then I was invited to TV station.

Where, you know, I did the same, actually it was a radio DG speaking, you know, to the camera. So there was a need to fill in these gaps, you know, between the programs and the news. Yeah. Because you know, now you have computers and you have playlists and you can fill in, you know, this sequence of playlists, however you want.

Yeah. But then back then there was, there were tapes and you just had to fill in. Okay. Today you have three minutes, 37 seconds. So you go and fill in this with some type of game you call in. You answer the, the questions you wouldn't surprise us and so on. Yeah. So. I had nothing to do between these you know I would say interruptions.

So well normally I was going there today to be station about 5:00 PM maybe, and working until 10:00 PM and just a couple of, you know, appearances on air. So there was a kind of an offer maybe you would like to write some, you know, texts for for TV program and TV shows, trailers. Like promo promotional text.

And I was like, yeah, maybe. And then I started to voice them. So, and then, you know, there were like two editors and I was told like, okay, you have to now, you know Coordinate all this, you know, stuff with them. So this is how I went from you know being a host to writing, to, to copywriter, to voiceover talent, to coordinator, and then a manager of small, you know, division in, in mid television.

So this is how I became kind of a creative. Marketing guy Uhhuh, and then eventually, you know, all the agencies and communications and everything else, else, you know, built up during the, the, the years. Yeah. So this was a really long answer, right? this is how it went. Yeah. And I'm so curious. I mean, let's, let's start with okay.

DJing, right? You had a radio show, you had different programs. Was there a specific program that you liked the best? The one that, you know, you got excited about. Was there, you know, a fun part of that specific role that you were in? Yes and no. You know, I, I used to record, you know, some of the shows myself and then, you know, I did listen them well, five years later on Uhhuh and I was like, oh shit, it was so really bad, you know, but back then I was like, so proud to, to work on radio.

So it's well, yes and no, but. One thing was, and I'm still remembering it's very clear. So there were like just two CD players in the station and you know, there were no MP3 files that you know, when the computers were really had really tiny, hard desks, so only the ads, you know, could go into computer, but otherwise all the music were come, was coming from the DCDs and we had something.

Two or 300 cities, you know, on the wall. And I remembered it clearly when you, you hadn't you know to look at the wall, you were just, you know, extending your arm and picking the right city. Taking it to the CD player. And, you know, you were like instantly remembering the, the number of the song, you know, to play.

So it was a skill, you know, that's we used to have, you know, back then and that's one thing I do remember. I also remember that it was really, really hard to stay about awake until. Am in the morning, it's Uhhuh, you know, it's a, well, it's something, you know, happening between three and 5:00 AM in the morning.

It's really hard to not to fall asleep. Yeah. And this is where, you know, I, I was getting phone calls from different, you know women, you know, who were not sleeping and think, okay, let's talk, you know, and, and, and chat and so on. So I sometimes we were like chatting, you know on ear sometimes off ear.

and well, sometimes it went really intimate you know, discussions and open stuff, but I'd never met any, any, you know, of those and the. Was called disco drone. So my previous boss at the radio station, he went to some national big radio station to another city and he left me this program.

So it was two hours of house and disco, not disco house and techno music. Yeah. And you know, it was kind of a, you know, funny thing when, you know, the music is playing something like one. 29 or more BPMs. And you are kind of thinking when you're speaking fast, it makes it really, you know, good for people.

But again, as I said, when you're listening to this recording, it's funny, you know, you you're saying nothing, no content. You're just telling some shit and it's it's going too fast and you can really understand what's what's in there. But back then, you know, the radio, this radio show was, I guess, one of the most popular on this radio station.

Yeah. Yeah. FA fascinating. And then also when you were talking about changing the steering wheel and moving it to the left hand side and selling those cars, Physically was that the most physically demanding job that you ever had? Because to me, it seems like, Hey, there's a lot of physical work that goes into that.

Was it hard work? I mean, was it, you know, very deme. Yeah. Well, Eric, I, I know I'm a bit like crazy person. I'd say like, you know what I'm saying? To my wife. Oh, should I should try this one? I do really like, you know, to, to try this welding, you know, aluminum stuff. So she's like, oh no, it's, you know, again, so she knows I I'll, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be jumping into, you know, all in, you know, testing it and, you know, coming back, back within like what's two weeks time.

Yeah. So no, it wasn't. I think you know, I, well, this welding part and, you know, changing this wasn't the most Dirty job. I would say, you know, the preparation for painting is the most I would say dirty and the job that, that I don't like same would be with the house, you know, reconstruction you should take all these plaster, you know, boards and then apply some I don't even know the English words in know of them, but lots of different stuff until you get to the world really even, you know, and you can paint.

Yeah. Paint it over. So. I've tried a lot of things and I do love woodworking and I have the garage full of woodworking stuff. So I, I, I do like, you know, doing this dirty or mechanical or physical, you know, jobs and, and they have actually, they help to, to relax after, you know, being all, you know, day in the calls or Excel sheets or, you know, or whatever daily job you.

No, I completely agree. I never considered myself to be a person that likes working in the garden or yard, but when my wife and I bought our house, I and our, even though our backyard was really small, I enjoyed being out there planning, you know, new plants or cutting the grass or. Repairing the fence, there was just something, you know, physically getting your hands dirty.

That, that, that was, that made it very relaxing. So I, I definitely understand what you mean. Prior to launching Monte Moto you had a lot of different entrepreneurial pursuits. Can you tell us about one that you were very excited about, but it didn't turn out like you expected. What did you learn from that one?

But it'll be connected to model model. I think in the, in the end of. Okay. That's a good flavor. That's fine. Okay. Yeah. So the, well, the overall career that I had, it, it was like on the marketing creative agency side. Right. And I, I, I did work actually on all the biggest latian television networks and, and tic, you know, lathe is really tiny markets.

It's like what? 3 million people. So sometimes, you know, when foreign businesses are launching, you. Corporates. So they are like seeing this all three B countries, fin Lavia, Estonia as like breia and, and, and then, you know, I used to work there as well, but after that, I did realize that I have to escape this industry.

Cause you know, it's what's what, 15 years, more or less, you know, in, in that int radios and agencies and so on. I'm fed up, you know, and it doesn't make any sense for me to stay. Here. I was determined I should be going and choosing some tech related stuff. And I'm not sure why, but hardware was always something, you know, in there, like, okay, now I can tell, okay, next my next venture will be something like you know, software as a service, maybe be to be, you know, this is why, you know, I, I I'm good at selling and marketing and the, the things, but hardware is still winning, you know, some.

So back then when I did decide this made, I would say I made this guideline for myself. I should be working in, in, you know, starting my career in tech. I had this idea that we should build some I should build some lamp career lamp. You know, this red one for the bicycles. Which would act as a tracker.

Okay. And then well, I didn't find anything like that on the market. So then, and I was having small kids back then and I was like, okay, there should be some kind of solution to track your kid because when you, you become parent and then they start, you know, to go into kindergarten and then later on to the school.

You're kind of very near nervous, you know, to, to lose them. It's it's not the times, like 30 years ago when we were like spending all the day on the street, now it's different. And I was looking for some solutions and I went to different companies, including, you know, big Finian company TOA and who were, who is still doing hardware.

And they're doing really well. And I did purchase some of, some of the devices and my plan was to build the backend. You know, front end and to use these devices for tracking the kit and so on. But it events, you know, so bad because the devices were full of bucks. You know, it, it, it stopped working and you know, my program was like, okay, it just stopped recording to the server, you know?

And I'm not sure what to do. There is no way to, you know, to, to do anything about that. And I went to this company and to, you know, where I was buying the hardware from. And I was saying like, guys, I did invest like, you know, all the money I had into this. And your hardware just doesn't work. You know, maybe there are some other ways maybe you can, you know reveal some you know, source code to me.

And I could you know, help with that, you know, because it's obviously not working or, or do something, you know, else, but the answer is, well, no, sorry, it's our proprietary stuff. And you know, there is nothing. So, yeah, I lost, I think, well, now it doesn't sound like a very, very huge amount, but back then it was like 30,000 euros.

So, so it was all I had and I made myself a clear. Lesson that I should not be building, you know like businesses or ideas on top of other people, stuff, which are acting like a black black box, which I cannot influence, which I cannot change, you know? And then you are like, okay, so this box is, you know, not providing any feedback, it's it doesn't just doesn't work.

So yeah know, this is very, very painful thing that I learned. What, I guess it was 2007, eight mm-hmm . Some time about that. So, yeah. And this is well how it's connected with mono models. So I did went with this idea of bicycle you know, lamp to, to few engineers in, in business. So I was having, having lunch with a few of them.

And this is how I met Petland my current partner. He was and he's still a founder and. He was back then a CEO of another company engineering company. And they did like the idea. And so he got interested. He, he brought back to the to the other partners, his partners, and said, yeah, we are interested.

But you know, during the I guess for six months, we realized that we cannot do anything that small and in the like affordable price range. And the technology is not there yet. And we should do something for motorcycles and this is how the money model was born. Funny thing is that at the moment, Coming back to the bicycles.

Yeah. Yeah. So you're going through this period where you said you just lost like 30,000 euros. It was a, that's a, that's a huge sum. And you have two small kids and I'm wondering, like, what were you doing? You have all this weight on your shoulders because you gotta provide for your family. You just spent a lot of time and effort on something that didn't work.

and was this sort of like the light at, how did, how did you get through this? You know, this is a, a big struggle in my eyes. I got two small kids, so I, I, I can't imagine where I just spent a lot of my money, a lot of my savings and this didn't work out. What was going on through your head at this time?

Andreas. And how did you get through it? I, I think I'm always getting through some. It's well now when looking for it, respectively, it was there were like few things. One thing I would say is friends. So I have, I had friends who, you know, were totally okay to borrow me what 5,000 Euro, you know and no terms nothing.

And that was one thing. And another is, I'm always, always, you know, Finding a way, how to earn money one or another way. So I, I I'm totally okay to provide the services. I am. Okay. As, as you heard, you know, to do some physical, you know stuff I'm a quite good project manager, so I know how to code a bit and I can build, you know, Well, quite a complex you know, website and do the voiceover and and producing the well, the videos and so on.

So, you know, I, and I have a really, really big network of of you know, people I know. So this is well, you know, it's all helped. It's like, okay. For the short periods you can borrow the money from your friend. And then in the meantime, you know, I can always find some projects that I can work on and, you know, live on this money return, the you know, money to, to my friend that I borrow from.

And, yeah. Okay. So, okay. I just to, you know, understand I'm I'm oh, very energetic person. So sometimes it's, it makes, you know, some people who are next to me and have less energy than me. It's sometimes irritates them and with all this energy, I can, I can, you know work on few. Quite a big project simultaneously.

Okay. And so I'm, I'm just like that. So, you know, this is what I realized. And actually one of, one of my friends helped me to realize that. I'm okay to take, you know, much more than other people can, you know, take in terms of, you know, job thinking, you know, and I'm really, I'm thinking really fast. So that's one thing.

And the another thing every time I'm okay. I should be, you know well maybe I should be choosing some more like narrow niche. Maybe I should be, you know, product manager, which I I guess I would be really, you know good at that. And then I should be going coding because I can, and you know, doing some other stuff, for instance, I would do woodworking, you know, when that's you know, It in current times it pays you know, really well.

Yeah. But my friend said, no, no, no, no, you would be lost. You have too much, you know, energy in all that. So you have to, to, to be careful, you have to work with people, you have to push ideas, you know, you have to, to get some uncertainty. Yeah. Because you know, when when the things are cert certain around me, it's not really interesting to me.

Yeah. You're kinda like a Jack of all trades. So when people first hear about Monte Moto, what do they get really excited. When they discover the product. Well, in most cases, it's not they get excited. It's more like they say, okay, I saw, you know, another tracker on Amazon selling that what three times, you know, less or, or so, and then, you know, it takes time to, to speak, discuss and educate, you know about the differences and well, the focus that we have and.

When we started in model model, there were like plenty of different trackers that you could use as an anti theft tracker. You can even use, you know, whatever old iPhone that you have connect to the motorcycle, you know, in order to be charged at all times. And here you go, you can use, you know, different technologies to do the same job.

But what we did focus on was the ease of. You know, all these trackers when we started, they were all wired. So you have to connect like at least two wires, right. Red and black. And it causes lots of you know, difficulties for some people and other people don't want to breach the warranty of the motorcycle when it's new and Then the configuration, it was done either through specific software, which is done through computer connecting, you know, through the USB microb or whatever, you know, cable or through text messages, which is really, you know, uncomfortable.

And this is where we said, okay, we could do a battery power device, which would focus only on anti theft. In all stuff and we should do the so that, that means actually eliminating, eliminating all the so to say, nice to have features like, okay. I, I would like to track all this route that I want and then share the friends or community and on.

So we kind of stripped it down to the CEPT function only, and we made a really, really nice User experience ease of use thing through the app. So it just uses two apps, iPhone or Androids. Okay. No other means of, of front end. And then you just go next, you insert your name and then next, next, next.

And here you go, you, you can start using big device. All right. And what markets are you in? I know you're in many countries in Europe and I think you, you launched in the us, but what markets are, are you in current? So short history, it went like this back in 2017, end of 2017, we finished the first version of product, which now we see it was like buggy, like shit

And we started trading in Italy. We went to the shows and Italy. When you're looking from, you know, business development perspective on Excel looks wonderful. The country is full of motorcycles. It's the leader in the world, you know, of motorcycles per capital. Well, except for maybe India, Philippines, and, you know, the countries where the motorcycle is the first, you know, mean of transportation.

Yeah. But then the theft rates are high, you know, and the insurance companies you know, matured and so on. But it didn't work out like it's it's really, you know, it was really where to understand that there are agents, you know, people who are dealing with all these retail shops and every agent works differently in, in UR different region, like ly is in the south, or, you know, Piman, or, you know, Lombardia is on the top where the rich region is, and they have different you know, understanding on how to sell.

And it's really, you know, hard to control of them. It's impossible actually to control them. They are overselling their like, promising that there is no subscription for the SIM car to the people. And it's, it's coming back, you know in a bad way. And the worst case was when most of them were asking for payment in terms of six.

For nine months, which for us was like, no, we can't, you know, offer that. We are like struggling with cash. We are your young company. So, and this is how we said, okay, we should try UK. And we were approaching retailers directly in the UK and it picked up. Slowly, but it did pick up and both direct to consumer channels.

It's it's our own website and then the Amazon channel and the retailer shops well, it's proved to be, you know, at the right product, the right quality of the product and the offering and well, the timing. Yeah. So it's it starts very okay. Mm-hmm . Then then we went to France and France.

They, there is, there are much more competitors, I would say, than in, in the UK. And eventually we did cover the whole Europe. So we were changing this model from working with the retailers. We went to distributors went exclusive distributor for one country. So that means a faster mm-hmm , you know markets.

Penetration and then U USA. So we gained some experience. We did the certifications for USA and we did screen all the distributors and we were, were working for like half a year with the, with all of them until we reached the agreement with taco PowerPort, who is I guess the best distributor that we ever had.

Fantastic. Fantastic. And they are now, now USA and USA. I think it's like 45% of total units sold this year. Great, great. What's what's your revenue for 2021 Andreas? We will finish 2021 with something like two point almost 3 million, 2.3 last year. It was one point almost. So 1.4, we were targeting to grow 100%.

So we missed that. Okay. There are like justifications, like, you know, COVID supply chain and other issues, but well, I. We are still positive and I mean, cash cashflow or EBIDA positive, so that's good. And for the next year again, we'll have this, we have this 100% growth. Okay. So yeah, let's get 5 million, you know, next year.

So we'll see. All right. All right. All right. Well, last question I have for you. Andreas is I was broken. I was, I was poking around your personal website and I saw lots of books, books such as triggers startup nation. Growth hacker marketing. If you could recommend one or two books for the audience, which one would you recommend?

Okay, Eric, but first I need to understand the audience better. So , what's the ideal customer profile of your audience? Well, these are either startup founders or people who wanna create a startup here. They're very entrepreneurial mindset. Someone who's got the ambition. Maybe they don't have the exact idea yet, but.

They're looking for some guidance, maybe some good knowledge that they could learn from. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm just thinking, you know, it's really hard to pick the best one. Cause you know, my, my speed is like what's 50, at least 50 books per year and I'm you know, Switching from Harvard business review collections to, to some psychology or so sociology books and and so on.

So, mm, on one end I would recommend, you know, something which is like historical you know, the well it's, you know, guns turns and steel or, you know, these the, the series of the books. Let me check. And while you're checking, do you have a life, a life motto or maybe a favorite quote that you live by?

Oh my, maybe it's it, it would be something like everything will be okay in the end if it's not okay. It's not the end. Okay. Something like that. Yeah. You know, and yeah. So the, the next to the guns terms and steel it's karate books, you know about 21st age and so on. So it's why, because it really lays out, you know, how did it went to the very start of a humanity and you know, how it's how humans did change the world and themselves and so on.

So that would be like one stream and while the other would. I would say geopolitical books and that's Tim Marshall divided and others, it really opens your eyes and helps to understand, you know, the differences and the reasons maybe reasoning behind why is China like that or Russia like that, or, or, you know, some other countries or regions like that.

Because for instance, I guess for USA, For Americans, it's really hard to understand, you know, what's what's happening, but for us, you know, when I'm living in authe, which is like borderland, so we're always on this border, you know, and then there were Germans and then the suites and then the Russians, you know, and then you know, others like fighting and, you know living on this borderland.

All right. Okay. No, that, that book sounds really fascinating. I think it's something that I'm gonna put on my favorite list in. And and check it out. Cause I'm always fascinated about, you know, different countries, the history about each country or the different regions. And now that I'm living over here in Eastern Europe I feel like it's something that I definitely would enjoy.

So Andreas, thank you so much for being on this show. This has been very, very fascinating. I enjoy learning much about you and your experience and, and your, and your background and your story. And to everybody listening. When I say, thanks again for tuning in. If you enjoy this show, please give us a review and I will chat with you next week.

Cheers.

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